tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6596875307622785193.post39555505229757791..comments2023-06-08T04:55:15.496-07:00Comments on How to be Superwoman: Why Joseph Smith Didn't write the Book of MormonRo Jeanettehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08987957661555552852noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6596875307622785193.post-28652707632596895692011-10-29T09:52:45.191-07:002011-10-29T09:52:45.191-07:00Kristi, I posted this comment before I read the ar...Kristi, I posted this comment before I read the article. It was late so I made some notes and I will give a more in-depth resonse to the article soon. In the mean time, I have shared some of my personal expereinces and insights on this subject already. Look under the "Not LDS?" tab or under "prophets" or "revelation" in the labels block.Ro Jeanettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08987957661555552852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6596875307622785193.post-23575598174930135872011-10-28T22:25:55.965-07:002011-10-28T22:25:55.965-07:00This might be the point where we have to "agr...This might be the point where we have to "agree to disagree" because I do not believe in "continuing revelation". My reasons are so well expressed by this article so I have to refer to it again. http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue98.htm <br />But that certainly does NOT mean that I believe God has "abandoned us for more important things"! I do believe that he gives us more help than we can possibly imagine or even know but I think we disagree on what that help looks like. I do believe in a continuing illumination of the Bible by the Holy Spirit. He enables us to understand the Bible because without him we are blind as it says in 2 Cor 4:3-7. The Holy Spirit can use others to teach us more about the Bible too. And through the Bible we understand God, his character and his majesty. It is the Holy Spirit's job to convict of us sin and to give us an understanding of God and his word. And in pursuing a better knowledge of God, and in seeking to bring Him all of the honor and glory that he deserves and in seeking to be a more faithful servant to Him, then He will undoubtedly direct our circumstance through his good and perfect providence. And what you said doesn't sound crazy but I am careful about things that I can't prove and I am extremely careful about anyone claiming divine revelation. Does God require that I follow him without using my mind and the reasoning ability that he has given me? As I said I would never trust my reason alone but neither would I abandon it. There are many verses that ask us to pursue and defend truth and it's clear that they are not saying fight for the truth with gut feelings. Acts 18:28, Acts 19:8-10 2 Tim 3:16, 1 Pet 3:15, 2 Tim 4:2,3, 1 Thess 5:21, Prov 4 (and a lot more of the Proverbs too) and what were the priests so interested in when they spoke to Jesus as a child in the temple. I don't think it was an awe of his gut feelings. :)<br /><br />The reason I seek out pastors, teachers and those wiser than myself is to make sure that I have a right and true grasp of the truth. I like and agree with your interpretion of Matt 7:15-20 but what about Deut 18:19-22. Have you ever seen a prophecy (or perhaps your own special revelations) not come true? God's pretty tough on those situations. <br /><br />There are long periods of time in the Bible when there were no priest or prophets (400 yrs from Joseph to Moses, 400 yrs between the OT and NT) so I don't think that prophets or priests are necessary for God to be at work in his people. <br /><br />However I would say that Jesus Christ was the final and perfect priest who still lives today. Heb 4:14-16 <br /><br />And that he was the perfect, final Prophet (Deut 18:15 John 1:21 Heb 1:1,2) who still lives today. <br /><br />God came to be the prophet, priest, king and sacrifice that no person on earth could ever be.<br /><br />It's late here. I'm up WAY too late thinking and studying but I'm enjoying this so maybe we can follow up later. I've got family coming so I might not respond for a few days. Thanks for discussing this with me. It really helps me.Kristihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08317815214871469275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6596875307622785193.post-17932092412142786652011-10-28T20:51:56.820-07:002011-10-28T20:51:56.820-07:00I agree with you that we (all of us) are divided b...I agree with you that we (all of us) are divided because of sin and human frailty. And I suppose it is a bit of a cop-out to imply that "the Book of Mormon clears it all up, the end." But it does help. <br /><br />We Latter-Day Saints also believe in continuing revelation. That is the reason for the priesthood and a Prophet and Apostles. They are to help keep us on the path God has established. I know it might sound crazy. Sadly, our society has conditioned us to doubt anythig we can't prove and to be wary of anyone claiming divine communications. Detractors of my faith often use passages like Matthew 7:15-20, saying that it proves that prophets are false. I disagree. This passage explains how to distinguish a true prophet from a false one. <br /><br />I have also been told that if you read the Bible and follow everything it says, you will know what to do and shouldn't need a prophet to clarify. Hmmm. So why do you need preachers and priests and ministers and evangalists? The work of God is to bring His children home. He hasn't abandoned us for more impotant things. He gives us more help than we can ever imagine. And don't forget, God has called many prophets throughout history. They were often disliked (to put it mildly) and rejected by the majority. There is no where in the Bible that says there will be no more prophets and no more priesthood.Ro Jeanettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08987957661555552852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6596875307622785193.post-23295526442329379412011-10-28T17:07:08.795-07:002011-10-28T17:07:08.795-07:00So you believe that the Declaration of Indepence w...So you believe that the Declaration of Indepence was the perfect, infallaible, revelation of God? That's the point that I was trying to make. Because something is inspiring does not mean that it is God's word. It's not an arguement, but I suspect that many authors of the DofI would be horrified to have the Bible or BofM put on equal footing with their work. Because something is inspired by God (inspired - aroused or guided by or as if aroused or guided by divine inspiration) doesn't mean that it is God's word. We may have a difference of vocabulary here. Inspired does not = God's word. And I agree, that what people choose to believe does not change the truth Of God's word. What I'm trying to say is that Amy made an arguement that the BofM was necessary to prevent divisions. That's not a good arguement because there are divisions in the Mormon church as well. Humans will always find a way to divide each other. :) I believe that the divisions come from sin and a sinful view of God's word. That's basically what you said.Kristihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08317815214871469275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6596875307622785193.post-10423067815325022422011-10-28T15:44:07.860-07:002011-10-28T15:44:07.860-07:00I appreciated your research here. And even though...I appreciated your research here. And even though it's not my conversation here, I just wanted to add that, actually, I do believe the Declaration of Independence (and the constitution) was God-inspired, and so did its authors.<br /><br />Also, any divisions among Mormons come for the same reasons that there are divisions among any religion-- people live the doctrines to varying degrees. People are proud and sometimes pick and choose what is most convenient to believe or obey, but that does not change the doctrines or what God has revealed.Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11486223394459963669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6596875307622785193.post-35056251027308112372011-10-28T15:05:59.835-07:002011-10-28T15:05:59.835-07:00We are not likely to change each others minds but ...We are not likely to change each others minds but I do enjoy the discussion and a friendly debate. :) I'll have to go read the post that you've mentioned here. <br /><br />My response to the issue of denominational divisions as evidence of the insufficiency of the Bible would be that we have a different cause and effect as we look at these circumstances. I would say that these divisions are a result of sin and our fallen natures. In spite of the saving work of Christ the process of sanctification is not complete until we get to heaven. We still have errors in our thinking and views of God not to mention in our ability to lovingly interact with each other. And it's not that we can't know Him now but we can't perfectly know him or "Know him even as we are known" (1 Cor 13:9-12) until heaven. Here's a good article with scripture references about sanctification (http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/being-and-becoming/)<br /><br /><br />I hear that goofy stuff about "don't believe anything after Acts" too and I think it's evidence that sin still colors our view of God and scripture. It's only by the grace of God that we understand anything. The Holy spirit was given to us to illuminate the scripture for us but more than a few people have confused their own will with the Holy Spirit. <br /><br />Here would be my follow-up question: The Mormon church is certainly not free of divisions even though they have the BofM. You have described the BofM as the second revelation needed to clarify or complete the Bible to prevent divisions. So why has it not brought unity to the Mormon church? <br /><br />The issue of multiple witnesses was required for legal matters between men. It was not something that God applied to himself. (Duet 19:15) He (and His word) is a witness unto itself. (1 John 5:6-12, Rev. 22:18-19) He is GOD so to say that his word requires seperate confirmation shocks me. You also mentioned that there are multiple translations of the Bible which is true but there have also been several revisions of the BofM over the years. I would see that as at least a similar issue to multiple translations of the Bible. Revisions and Translations are very different things but they both imply an incomplete or inaccurate previous edition. I see translations (good ones) as trying to find way to say the same thing in a new language that was said in the original language. Revisions usually imply a correction of a previous error. <br /><br />And may I say again that I truly enjoy respectful discussion of different viewpoints and I would love to continue.Kristihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08317815214871469275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6596875307622785193.post-66006207154892802282011-10-24T14:04:38.328-07:002011-10-24T14:04:38.328-07:00Kristi, I agree that there is biblical evidence(at...Kristi, I agree that there is biblical evidence(at least to my mind) that the Law of Moses was fulfilled in Christ. Hebrews is pretty clear on this too. The problem is that some Messiancis don't accept Paul as having authority. One man even told me "you can't trust anything after Acts to be the word of God." ?! There is a serious aversion to what some percieve as "traditions of man" How Jewish traditions are okay and Christian traditions aren't is beyond me!But this is beside the point of my reply.<br /><br />I might have misrepresented this as a complete explaination of why I believe the Book of Mormon is true. It is not even close to complete. This post (http://howtobesuperwoman.blogspot.com/2011/09/why-do-you-believe.html) might give you a little more insight into my personal beliefs on this subject. <br /><br />I wrote this as one more example of why the Book of Mormon is true. I know the New Testament gives some explaination of the Law of Moses. Obviously it isn't clear enough or there wouldn't be Messianics or similar groups. Nor would there be denominations or even different versions of the Bible. We would all be Catholic or Orthodox. We would all use the same Bible. 1 Corinthians 1:10, for example, says that we should all be perfectly joined together with no divisions. These divisions alone are proof to me that the Bible is not enough. There are too many ways to interpret what it says. <br /><br />The Law of Moses required at least 2 witnesses. (Deut 17:6 and 19:15) This law of witnesses was still in effect in New Testament times.(Matt. 18:16, Heb. 10:28, 1Tim. 5:19, 2 Cor. 13:1) It is a pattern that God uses to declare his word. When there is a discrepency, he sends a second witness. Paul himself was not convinced by a single witness of Jesus Christ. His conversion may have been an extreme but it was necassary to forward the work of God. <br />The Book of Mormon is not a replacement of the Bible, nor is it a contradiction. It is the second witness. When there are misunderstandings of what the Bible says (like with Messianics) the Book of Mormon can clarify. The examples I have given in this post are significant to me. There are many more. If you really want to know more reasons Joseph Smith didn't write the Book of Mormon, I would be happy to share them.Ro Jeanettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08987957661555552852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6596875307622785193.post-75522159801667052702011-10-24T11:47:03.774-07:002011-10-24T11:47:03.774-07:00I had to look it up but I wanted to add that Galat...I had to look it up but I wanted to add that Galatians also addresses those who tried to live under the law.Kristihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08317815214871469275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6596875307622785193.post-58613862377131886062011-10-24T08:06:11.633-07:002011-10-24T08:06:11.633-07:00I also disagree with the Messianics but it is base...I also disagree with the Messianics but it is based on the Bible (Rom. 7) which is complete and covers this issue long before the BoM came about. When many in Rome tried to put new Christians under the Old Law Paul addressed that. Your arguements for the validity of the BoM are weak. Many uneducated young men are very eloquent and imaginitive. He included mention of the law of Moses because including references to the Bible added an air of authority and it had certainly shaped his thinking and vocabulary. He even copied portions of scripture into the BoM. While the BoM does contain wisdom and some truth and can even be emotionally inspiring that does not make it God's revelation anymore than the Declaration of Independence can be called God's revelation. I don't find the BoM offensive but I do not find it to be God's Holy and inspired word.Kristihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08317815214871469275noreply@blogger.com